RAWBangkok

Welcome to Thailand: visiting Immigration

Wednesday, 21 January 2009 · 12 Comments

welcome-to-thailand

With the exception of my first couple of months in Bangkok, and one brief 2-week period last year when I had a minor hiccup, I have always had a non-immigrant B visa while living in Thailand.  Unlike many people who have to leave the country every 90 days, I have always been lucky enough to have a 12-month visa that can be renewed annually without the need to leave the country.

The only administrative requirement aside from the annual renewal of my visa and work permit is to report to immigration every 90 days to tell them I’m still in the country.  It is a simple administrative procedure that takes less than 15 minutes in and out of the front door.  I’ve taken care of it several times myself, but it is actually a function that can be taken care of by an agent without the need for me to go to immigration for the 90 report.

My work permit can also be renewed without the need for me to appear in person.

Like most long term residents I have an agent who takes care of all the paperwork related to my visa and work permit.  A year or so ago when I first started working with my current agent I wrote a couple of blogs questioning her competence.

I have to now say that the past 14 months or so have proved her abilities.  She is efficient, contacting me a week or two ahead of each time she needs my documentation.

One of the amazing things about amazing Thailand is that every time you go to the Immigration Department you have to give them multiple copies of all the paperwork you have given them countless times before.  They must have at least two dozen copies of my university degree by now.

And we’re not talking about scanned electronic copies.  Nope.  Good old fashioned paper copies.  Each time I go to immigration for my visa or the Labor Dept for a work permit there is a stack of paperework held together by a medium sized bulldog clip.  What they do with all the repeat copies of my paperwork is a mystery.  My personal file must take up a full file drawer by now… God knows where they put all this paper, or exactly why they need it, but in the universal dismissal we have all learned, “This is Thailand”.

It’s necessary for damn near every piece of paper we deliver to them to have my original signature on it, so each time we do anything more complicated than the 90 day report I find myself signing my name 130 times or so.  I have often had to purchase a new ballpoint pen midway through the process because the first one has run out of ink.

The immigration office is always crowded, in part because every transaction brings two people to the building… the foreigner in question, and his Thai agent.  I have seen a few forlorn people wandering around at times without an agent trying to make sense of the forms (writtne in Thai), the multiple counter areas, each with it’s own numbered queueing system, and the mystifying regulatory requirements that seem to vary with the hour of the day and the immigtation official handling the paperwork.

I can’t imagine how those foreigners manage to achieve anything at all. As a general thing, the Immigration officials don’t speak English beyond the bare basics… apparently no one ever thought it would be a useful skill in this environment.

In any event, I was there with my agent.  I signed my name 137 times, handed over my passport and sat down while she took care of business.

The initial part of taking care of business is fairly quick, taking only about ten minutes.  Once the paperwork is handed over the counter, the officer behind the counter gets a good look at the foreigner, comparing his passport photo to the real-life version to make sure that it really is him.

Once this visual sighting has been completed the foreigner can leave.  Taking care of business now mostly involves standing around waiting for the paperwork to be processed and the number to be called.

Agents obviously try to arrange their time so that they can process the paperwork for several clients on a single visit, so it’s not unusual for them to be at the department for several hours, waiting in a series of queues and processing several different passports.

On Friday my agent told me that I could go.  I held out my hand for my passport.

“Oh, no”, she said.  “I won’t get you passport back for another hour or so, and I will need it again next week when I renew your work permit.”

Well that wasn’t gonna work.  I had to go to the bank and pick up a replacement ATM card, and that wasn’t gonna happen without my passport.

So, I was in for an hour-long wait.  I settled in as comfortably as I could on a hard plastic seat.

But it turned out to be a worthwhile wait, because I learned something.

I mentioned above that I am required to report to immigration every 90 days, and that this can be handled by my agent without the need for me to show my face.

Each time you do your 90 day report, the Immigration Officer stamps a piece of paper with a date 90 days hence and staples it inside your passport with the date stamp showing prominently, but all the other infro (name, adress, etc) out of view .

You have to make your next report no later than the date stamped on that piece of paper.

If you fail to make a timely report then the department levies a fine that can be as much as 5,000 baht.   This is not for overstaying your visa… just for forgetting an administrative detail like saying that I haven’t left the country and nothing has changed since three months ago when I told you the same thing.

Well, it seems that the guy sitting on the hard plastic chair beside me was in a similar situation to me… one year visa with 90 day reporting.  The problem was that about 7 months ago he had missed his 90 day report.

Now, the answer to that seems simple to me… go report a couple days late.
But simple often doesn’t work in Thailand.  His agent had said that if he reported late he would have to pay the large fine.

Instead, his agent suggested that he simply wait until he left the country.  The agent told him that the border police aren’t particularly interested in checking 90 day reports… they have other responsibilities … and they were very unlikely to spot the late report or levy a fine.

Okay.

The problem was that this guy hadn’t left the country, and now it was time to renew his visa, and his 90 day report was about 7 months past due.

Problem.

But “This is Thailand”.

His agent came over and asked him for his passport, which the guy handed over.  The agent turned to the page with the 90 day report paper stapled in it and removed it.  He folded it neatly and put it in his briefcase.

He then extracted a fresh report paper with a recent stamp on it, which he stapled back in place.  He told the guy to hold onto the passport, and he’d be back soon.

The guy had been talking to me, so we were both interested in this curious procedure.  He looked at the 90 day report that had been stapled into his passport.  It was genuine, but it had someone else’s name on it.

The Immigration official doesn’t check the details to make sure they match… but simply looks for the date stamp to be sure it isn’t past due.  I was waiting long enough to see that the ruse worked.  The guy got his new visa without incident, and got his passport back with the incorrect paperwork still stapled in place.  Presumeably it will stay there until it is replaced by his ninety day report sometime in April, and then everything will be okay again.

A typical Thai practical solution to a sticky problem.

Where did the spare paper come from?  I don’t know.  My best guess is that another client of the agent left Thailand for the Christmas holidays shortly after making his 90 day report.  Knowing that he wouldn’t need it to exit and re-enter the country (an even that re-sets the 90 day counter) I imagine that the agent simply took it out of the passport without ever mentioning it to the guy it belonged to.

My own visa was processed about 15 minutes later, and I was able to go to the bank to replace my ATM card.

Welcome to Amazing Thailand!

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Categories: Daily Living · werewolf blogs
Tagged: Department of Immigration, passport, visa, work permit

12 responses so far ↓

  • DOCSMITH // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 3:32 am | Reply

    So who is the agent you use and what is the cost? Sounds far better than do it yourself.

  • Werewolf // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 6:22 am | Reply

    DOCSMITH: In my case the “agent” is an employee of the company that sponsors me. This is a common setup.

    Large companies will employ one or two people to manage the visas and work permits for all their foreign employees. You need to have about a dozen foreigners to make this cost effective.

    Medium sized companies will contract the work out to a specialist company. Typically this is if you have between– say — three and eleven foreigners.

    Individuals and small companies (one or two people) usually have it included as part of their business support package that includes accounting, regulatory and legal support, etc.

    Perhaps the best known name among these providers is Sunbelt. I believe the boys at the Big Mango still use Sutlet Group. When I worked as a teacher for an adult language institute in 2005 and 06 we used a different company called Double Impact (who did a VERY good job taking care of me). There are dozens of choices from the very small to the very large provider.

    It’s probably worth plugging thailandguru.com in this space, who runs a very good website. I think he also handles visas and work permits… he did the last time I visited his site about six months ago. (It’s not a blog, but a great site for basic info about Thailand). I haven’t used his services, but if his website is any indication I imagine he would be thorough and efficient. Great grreat website.

    In my case the “agent” is supplied and paid for by my employer so I have no control over who does the work. I’m lucky that the person who does the work is very competent… often they are not, and you can hear horror stories on barstools across Bangkok every night of the week.

    In 05 06 I was familiar with the cost. Our company paid nearly 50K baht the first year for all this paperwork and support, and then 20K per year in subsequent years to handle 90 day reporting, renewals and the like. Not cheap, but as I said, I can’t imagine doing it myself.

    When I looked at setting up my own business two years ago I got quotes from one of the support providers and the package price was 106K baht to set up company, get two visas & work permits, and all other details, then about 90K per year to do all the support work, including negotiating bribes with police when needed, as this is part of doing business in Thailand and usually requires language skills that foreigners do not possess.

    Hope this info helps, tho the numbers are a couple years out of date.

    thailandguru may have prices quoted on his website… I have to go to work soon so I didn’t take the time to look.

  • RonBaltimore // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 9:04 am | Reply

    I always thought you worked for yourself…….guess not.

  • John Brown // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 9:31 am | Reply

    I was under the impression that you could also mail in your passport and 90 day report and have it processed and then resent to you (return envelope and stamp included) if you didn’t live close to an Immigration Office. But, I guess that is a non-issue if you live in Bangkok…

  • generous sponsor // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 9:54 am | Reply

    it’s a bit of a crap shoot if you try to leave the country if you’ve forgotten to report after 90 days.

    one friend got hit for a much higher fine than 5,000 baht for trying to do this. then again, i wanted to see if this is always the case. last time i left the county i took out the piece of paper showing the 90 day report when i handed my passport to immigration just to see if he’d bother trying to fine me. he didn’t.

  • Pants Elk // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 11:27 am | Reply

    Ewwww … makes me glad I have an idiot-friendly Type O Non-Imm … the very least hassle possible. Almost a pleasure. Almost.

  • generous sponsor // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 1:06 pm | Reply

    PE – to almost eliminate the hassle entirely you might consider permanent residence followed by eventual Thai citizenship – just as long as you’re old enough to avoid the conscription requirement that is.

    no visa concerns, plus you could participate directly in Thailand’s democracy.

  • Werewolf // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 1:35 pm | Reply

    RB: I don’t want to be too detailed in this space about my exact situation. I am actually a self-employed contractor, but I have arrangements with the company that is my primary agent for sourcing work contracts. This arrangement allows me to keep a visa and work permit through their company, which may bend the letter of the law, but I think is well within the spirit.

    For reasons that I hope are obvious I don’t want to say much more than that.

    GS: I’ve considered getting permanent residence. My understanding is that to qualify you need 36 consecutive months on the same visa. Due to my ‘hiccup’ in January last year when I had to stay in Thailand for two weeks on a holiday stamp, I am currently just at the 12 month mark.

    I don’t think I’d ever add Thai citizenship to my current American and Australian set, but Permanent Residency seems to have some benefits in terms of reduced administration and a little less potential leverage by your employer.

  • generous sponsor // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 4:04 pm | Reply

    WW – yeah, you’re right about the 36 consecutive month rule. it’s the one immigration rule that hasn’t changed since i’ve come to thailand.

    as far as i know, permanent residence is actually somewhat difficult to get (unless you bring in lots of cash or you have a wife and kids (wife may not be enough)). i actually don’t think the PR benefits are all that great either (the only one that comes to mind is the ability to buy a condo without having to bring cash in from overseas).

  • Leosia // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 4:17 pm | Reply

    Interesting info about the 90 day reporting rule. In the last three years I’ve only been to immigration three times to get the annual renewal with my agent. Each time they put a slip of paper in saying I have to report in 90 days time – and each time the agent says just take it out! It’s never been stapled in. I have never checked in for the 90 day period and they have never asked. It seems they don’t actually keep track of it. If there is no paper there is no date to check.

  • Pants Elk // Wednesday, 21 January 2009 at 5:27 pm | Reply

    gs – I’m aiming for a retirement/marriage visa – at the moment the O is fine. Resident’s status is very difficult to get, and as you say, you can live here comfortably without it. The main inconvenience I suffer is having a sticker that takes up a full page every time I go to Lao, which means a new passport this year from our dear friends at the embassy …

  • MSB // Friday, 23 January 2009 at 12:16 am | Reply

    If you can get to use the one stop place its not so bad.

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