I am a member of California Wow fitness center here in Bangkok, but I haven’t made use of the membership in several months. It was originally a 3-year membership and it’s now due to expire in December.
With Penfold planning to return to Bangkok next month, he and I have been discussing getting into the gym together. See, Penfold is a gym-junkie, and I usually need to work out with someone (friend, trainer… doesn’t matter) as part of my motivation to go regularly. In Australia, I paid a personal trainer and spent about 6 hours a week for more than five years in the gym.
Here in Bangkok, in spite of having a membership, I’ve been sporadic about my workouts. Last year I started working out with a friend, but he gave up on Thailand and moved back to the US about a year ago. Since then my visits to the gym have been few and far between.
The end of my membership at almost exactly the same time as Penfold’s return has had me thinking of renewing.
So, the girl was in luck when she called me tonight.
The phone rang, and a woman asked for me by my first name. This is always a red flag to me, since I go by my middle name — only sales people and bill collectors use my first name. I asked who she was and what she wanted.
“I’m calling from California Wow” she said, in decent English.
Perfect!
See, when they get a new sales person, the first thing they do is give them the list of current memberships and tell them to call and hassle people to upgrade their membership. I’ve been blowing these people off for years. Now, when I’m thinking about renewing, maybe I won’t have to go through the hassle of going to the gym to deal with it… I can negotiate a deal with a hungry sales girl here on the phone and pay by credit card.
In short, I was a motivated buyer.
“Are you interested in upgrading to a lifetime membership?” she asked.
My reply: “It’s possible”
Her next words were a little unclear at the time, but in retrospect, what I thought I heard is exactly what she said.
“Why not?” is what she asked me.
It was so disconnected to my encouraging response to her, that I was confused.
“What?” is what I said next.
To which she replied, “Sorry.”
And she hung up.
I stared at my phone.
Shit.
Clearly there was a bit of language issue here. Her English was probably weaker than it appeared.
But the real driving force here was that she expected to get rejected. She actually planned to fail, and acted accordingly. I don’t sell for a living these days, but at two times in my life — once for nearly a decade — I earned my living as a hunter… a direct salesman who went out on cold calls to sell high-ticket services. To survive as a hunter, you can’t plan to fail. To the contrary, you have to assume the sale and act as though the buyer is buying up until the moment when they completely and unequivocally say “no”.
I reckon the story of this girl’s call is mildly intersteing on its own; enough to be a blog entry.
But it occurs to me that this week I’ve been reading a lot about the difficulty some people have getting laid by “hot” girls in Bangkok. Here’s :
But in Thailand, things appear to have become hopelessly muddled. Go to the bars and there is every possibility of being rejected. If you hit on the better looking girls, there is every probability. And the rejections are often chillingly devoid of any consideration of your feelings or even dignity.
The only thing I can think of is that the guy who wrote this has the same attitude towards getting laid by a hooker as the California Wow saleslady had about selling memberships. Perhaps he’s spent so much time getting rejected by women back in farangland that he can’t spot a motivated seller when he meets one.
I don’t care how “hot” a girl is; if she’s a go go dancer, bar girl or freelancer she’s showing up on the scene every night to make money, and making money is based on her ability to find punters willing to take her home for sex.
It’s pretty damned simple.
As a customer, you can simply assume the deal is done before you open your mouth to speak. She wants to sell. You want to buy. The only question left, really, is ‘how much’?
All I can think of is that this guy is talking to the “hot” bar girls the way he’d talk to a “hot” girl in a nightclub back in Minneapolis or Newcastle; that is, with fear, trepidation and the fear of rejection. In short, his manner probably indicates that he is intimidated by her beauty.
Let me be completely clear here. On occasion, a girl may say “no” to an advance by a punter here in Bankok. Not often, but sometimes. In my four years here I’ve never seen a correlation between how hot she is and getting a “no”. The few times I have been rejected in my offer, it hasn’t been because the girl in question was a stunner.
I don’t always try to go out with the “hottest” girl in the bar. In fact, I’m likely to choose the one that looks to be the most fun. But occasionally I walk in a place and a girl is so freaking smokin’ hot that I figure I can’t walk away without sampling. Assuming I have a couple of thousand baht immediately available, I’ll always invite the girl home.
I have never — repeat, never — had a smokin’ hot bar girl (go go dancer, service girl, freelancer) say “no” to my invitation to go home together. Never. Not once.
Is it because of my superior good looks? My charming character?
Hardly. I am possessed of neither.
(Now, regular readers will know that there have been some hot girls that I haven’t (yet) invited back to my place — notably my ongoing fascination with “Kung” at Rawhide — but that isn’t due to fear of rejection… just bad timing.)
But I understand one thing about bar girls — all bar girls, no matter how hot: She’s there to sell her sexual services and I am there to buy. She is glad to have me as a customer.
Here are comments on the blog quoted above from some guys who understand that concept:
From “Fender”:
You walk into a gogo, and, 99% of the time, you can fuck any girl you want. Go to Rawhide and pick out the A-list showgirl you think is the hottest. Give the mamasan 100 baht and tell her you you want to barfine the showgirl s/t. Out the door you go to your s/t hotel. You may get a starfish. You may get attitude. But you’ll get laid. If you don’t want to charm her or make her like you, tell her you’ll give her some extra baht if she acts like she likes you.
Go Emmanuelle or Caesars or Poseidon or Victoria or anywhere else at 8:00 and you can fuck any girl you want, 100% of the time, no attitude, no starfish. You can sit there and stare at them and make mean faces and scratch your balls and sniff your fingers and point to one with your ball-sweaty finger, then ignore her all the way to the room, and she’ll still pretend that you’re the man of her dreams and you make her cum her brains out. You don’t have to demean yourself by trying to be fun, not one bit!
From “Pants Elk”:
I’m not a great-looking guy and I’m definitely no longer in my twenties. Or thirties. Or forties. But I have pulled the hottest girls in R4 and other bars with no problems at all. Really. *That* one you’re probably thinking about right now. About 38k, sillied-up hair, totally fucking gorgeous. And the four or eight others like her from the A-team. How did I manage this amazing feat? …. Just by looking up at her from the rail and saying “Oi! Wanna go with me?” Nothing more mysterious than that.
Fender and Pants Elk sound like two guys I’d love to go drinking in the bars with. It’s not rocket science.
If you’ve been around Bangkok a bit then I’m saying anything you don’t know already, but if you’re on your way here for the first time, or thinking about coming here for the first time, then this post is for you.
Bangkok is not like home.
At home, unless you run with an unusual crowd, the girls you try to hook up with only want to sell their pussy once, or at least not very often. They hold the power and will make you jump through hoops to get to what you want.
In Bangkok naughty nightlife bars the girls are there hoping to sell their pussy as often as they can. You are very safe in assuming that the sale is done. You’re pitch to them need be no more sophisticated than Pants Elk so eloquently describes, “Oi! Wanna go with me?”
When you’re used to rejection, it can be a hard habit to break. Like the California Wow girl who called me tonight expecting me to say ‘no’, expecting beautiful women to have “attitude” is a state of mind born of life long training by the women back home.
But when you enter the Bangkok Pay-for-Play scene you can leave that expectation at home. Speak confidently and assume the deal is done.
The stunners are there for you. Hell, they’re ALL there for you. Understand that and act accordingly, and you’ll get the girl you want — every time.
20 responses so far ↓
Young Penfold // Sunday, 26 October 2008 at 10:31 pm |
On California:
The California sales/admin teams are cunts. They are constructed mainly of smoking hot babes and raving queers. When I upgraded my membership to lifetime, they fuckers lost my paperwork and passport photocopy 3 times, and rang me up giving me shit about it.
When they sit the dumb ferang down, they try the lame trick of 3 advisors cornering their seats around you and shoving a contract under your nose straight away. Lame
1 thing I cant get my head round about California gyms is why the perma-tanned greasy CEO (Eric Lavigne) Insists on having his photos all over the place. Ditch the mullet and leather trousers dude, you must be mid fifties
Rant over
swampthing // Monday, 27 October 2008 at 5:44 am |
YP, I would give my right ball to see a pic of your last comment pinned to their noticeboard
swampthing // Monday, 27 October 2008 at 7:40 am |
Btw, that’s an interesting pic you’ve used. He does strike me as the sort of bloke likely to get rebuffed, even in bangkok.
// Monday, 27 October 2008 at 11:15 am |
WW:
Good on ya’ for wanting to go to the gym to shape up a bit.
Ah…Bangkok. So many girls…onyl so much time left in life.
cheers.
Hjortfot // Monday, 27 October 2008 at 6:42 pm |
I think you have a very intellectual and analytical way of expressing yourself and your comments on the Thai society are very educational and should be accepted by most serious daily papers. That has triggered my interest in the picture Who is this guy? He looks to me very much lika Swedish author who was known for his difficulites with his wifes. Please let us know who is depicted.
// Monday, 27 October 2008 at 7:42 pm |
I went into google image searches and typed (if I remember correctly) “unhappy man” and this guy popped up in the initial 25 photos. No idea who he is.
BTW, before that I wasted 20 minutes looking for a pic of a beautiful girl with a scornful look on her face, but just couldn’t find anything I was happy with. I googled about 25 different sets of words trying to get a pic for this blog… usually I get a pic first try, and rarely spend more than three or four minutes looking for something that I’m happy with.
KJame // Monday, 27 October 2008 at 9:46 pm |
Great advice. So completely spot on. I mean, arguments can be made on any number of different sides to the central truth of what you’ve said, but straying from that center will guarantee a night with one of the girls who ISN’T there to sell her services. I’m not talking about the girls who short-time you for long-time, or any other of the many idiosyncratic scenarios. I’m talking about the girls who are just as confused as why they’re there as the punters looking for anything other than FUN.
Fucking great post, my man.
Hjortfot // Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 4:16 am |
Thx for the answer. I have now with the help of Google looked at and found that the picture is actually showing August Strindberg, 1849-1912, who had a “characteristically pessimistic view of geder relations”. The choice of picture is more congenial than you did know.
Young Penfold // Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 4:27 am |
Hjortfot – Wow. You sound like such a cool person to hang out with
// Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 11:27 am |
Hjortfot: Ignore the boy… I enjoy knowing such information. Thanks, I may actually look at the link later when I have a bit of time.
BTW: “congenial” is a word I simply don’t use often enough. I may try to start working it into the blogs.
Cheers,
WW
MSB // Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 2:38 pm |
555
Lifetime membership…. Yours or theirs??
Word on the street is that CAWOW is going bust soon.
Naki // Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 6:56 pm |
WW, I enjoy the blog and am finding lots of useful info. that has opened up my mind to many possibilities. You are right that we are coloured by our Western upbringing (explaining why perhaps the guy got a “no” answer since he wasn’t asking straight). Conversely I had a great experience last Saturday – which only came about as a result of reading from here.
I was meeting up with a mate in Cowboy and had arrived early so decided to go for a foot massage in one of the places around the corner. Being close to Cowboy I wondered if it was a legit place or something like Tulip, but when I went in the place was decked out like your usual foot massage joint. I started the massage and was served by a babe with a lovely face and great set. Quite lucky I thought as there were some scary women in there too. All the time I’m glimpsing at her I’m wondering if other services are available. Anyway, I mention that my back is sore and ask if she could do that too, “sure, no problem”. So after the foot massage we head upstairs – my hopes up that it is private rooms. Unfortunately it wasn’t – just the usual mats on a floor in a large room with curtains in between. I get the back massage – and she is really good which makes me wonder if she is only a legit masseuse and nothing else. I try and read other signs – and she is giving me lots of eye contact and smiling. At this point I’m the only customer in the room and I hear someone else come in and start a massage – speaking Japanese.
So after the back massage I roll over and she leans into my ear, points to my old fella and asks if I want that massaged too. Hell yeah. So we start discussing a price and this is where the good advice comes in. After reading your last post and seeing the link to Kenny’s post, I thought what the hell – lets go for gold. So I said I wasn’t happy with just a rub and tug, but wanted her to get whole kit off and do the wild thing. She hesitated for a few seconds – I could see the wheels turning, then she nodded and pulled the curtains to ensure no gaps – then got everything off.
It was great – having my sordid way without trying to make it too obvious to the punter one mat over. It really seemed like she enjoyed it too – so a great GFE. Afterwards she asked to not say anything to the boss downstairs as she could get into trouble. The farthest thing from my mind so not sure why she raised it.
Anyway – thanks for the great info. – keep it coming.
// Tuesday, 28 October 2008 at 8:17 pm |
Naki — great story. Glad to have been of some help to someone somewhere.
Feel free to share other good news as it arises.
mark // Wednesday, 29 October 2008 at 5:54 am |
I am sure it is August Strindberg but there is an uncanny resemblance to Johnny Depp in “Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street”. Or is it just me?
lupisque // Wednesday, 29 October 2008 at 7:45 pm |
I guess “Who dares wins”
Young Penfold // Thursday, 30 October 2008 at 1:38 am |
MSB – care to ellaborate? – If they do go bust, im gonna head down to Eric Lavignes multi million dollar crib in Phuket and shit on his doormat.
carey // Tuesday, 11 November 2008 at 6:39 am |
Hey WW great catching up with u the other night for a couple of beers – sorry i had to flee but the old 10 baht wishkey had the girl almost paraletic!!! and i had a whole night of sexual deviancy planned. U were right she is a nice girl and we had a blast for a couple of nights and i had the usual post bangkok depression knowing u would be going into shark bar to plunder Jiep whilst i was on the plane back to my boring office job…. anyway give her 1 for me and make it a good 1!!!
Cromwell Butterfield // Friday, 14 November 2008 at 9:40 am |
I think you missed the point, werewolf, of my post, which you quote. It was that it was a bit ridiculous that you should have to be confident – essentially, have any kind of “game” – to get a “whore”. Your post merely confirms that you often DO need “game”, in bangkok, to get with whores! Whores, for God’s sake! Which is, as I said, not what whores are supposed to be about.
That was the main thrust of my post, which seems to have sailed past you. That being said, what you failed to mention is that in my post I have repeatedly explained how it’s relatively easy and rewarding to get with regular, non-whore Thai girls. So if my “game” is so terrible, why is it working with regular girls and not whores? Your little theory that my lack of confidence with normal girls gets translated into my approach to whores fails to take into account my other statements in the blog you quoted, AND it shows you failed to grasp the central thrust of my post, which was that you shouldn’t NEED “game” to get whores.
About your main point here.
Werewolf, you yourself claim that you love the Issan type of girl – the type most Asian guys find ugly. If you only hit on this type, OF COURSE you won’t get rejected! And you won’t even NOTICE that it has nothing to do with them being “stunning” – to you they ARE stunning!
So yes, if you like the “ugly” girls, the ones Asian guys don’t go for, then of course you probably won’t get rejected. Also, if you only hit on girls who give you subtle hints of interest you will also never get rejected – I made this point on my original blog about a million times and NO ONE bothered to seriously consider it or engage with it, yet it is CRUCIAL to my argument. Why will no one seriously engage with that point?
Fender is quite simply WRONG when he says you can get any girl at Poseidon massage parlor – he is right only about the FISHBOWL, which has the uglier girls. The models lounge CAN and DO reject you – I have SEEN it happen, and I have had it happen to ME. Now let me ask you – what kind of confidence or “game” is needed in a massage parlor where you select even before you TALK to the girl?
The fact is that there is a reality in Thailand that you, werewolf, and your cohorts simply REFUSE to admit to, and prefer to live in your happy little bubble where anything slightly unpleasant is mercilessly excluded citizenship rights.
Thai “whores” on the whole prefer Asian men and most will go with farang only if they can’t GET Asian men – i.e., are “ugly”. If you are the kind of guy who loves the type of girl who Asians find “ugly”, then great, you are in NO danger of getting rejected! No problem! But why pretend that the reality is other than what it is? Sure, that little brown, flat faced Issan girl you think is a “stunner” would probably love being with an Asian guy over you, but no Asian guy will even spit on her, so she exercises the wonderful Thai capacity for making a virtue of necessity and adapting to life’s limitations with grace and good humor by finding happiness with YOU, the older farang. Don’t like to stare reality in the face? Why not? It may not live up to the illusion you have built for yourself, but it isn’t so bad.
I guarantee you, that you, Werewolf, being older and a farang, will get rejected by nearly every one of the hotter girls at any of the Rainbows. Not all, some of the uglier ones will be happy to go with you. Any day you wish, I will be happy to put it to the test.
If you insist on living in denial, that is fine. But it’s much better to find happiness in the REAL WORLD. Thailand is great and it’s great that you found happiness here and that you love the Thai girls you are with, but why build this on a castle of sand? Recognize the reality of Thailand and work within it. Denial gets you nowhere.
Sorry for the slight incoherence of this post, I’m in a huge rush and dashed it off in a rush!
// Friday, 14 November 2008 at 1:04 pm |
Okay, on the Farang Speaks 2 Much site I am a guest, but this is my blog, so I can tell you that you are a fucking idiot for repeating stupid things and telling me that I don’t understand them.
You think Isaan girls are ugly, and your “evidence” is that Thai guys agree with you.
You’re simply wrong. So are the Thai guys. Talk about ugly girls and stunners all you want, but aside from obvious factors, such as not being obese or having a face covered in zits there is no universal standard for ‘beauty’.
Apparently you can’t read either. You somehow say that I misunderstand the central point of your original post, which was that you shouldn’t need ‘game’ to pick up a hooker.
My blog above says in no uncertain terms that no one needs ‘game’ to pick up a hooker — any hooker — in Bangkok. So if you are getting rejected then you’re doing something wrong.
They’re hookers for Christ’s sake! They WANT to sell their pussy. I really IS as simple as, “I pay bar, you go with me.” It’s been working for me for years.
It’s got to occur to you at some point that, to date, NO ONE has agreed with you.
It’s because you’re entirely wrong.
You don’t just miss a subtle point here or there, or get a detail a bit wrong. Your entire premise is flawed and what you have to say is so ridiculous that I’m stunned you have the balls — or the stupidity — to keep repeating it.
You say that no one seriously engaged your cnetral arguments; yet they did, and I have. You just can’t seem to understand that people have engaged your arguments by explaining to you how completely mistaken you are. Your reply is to just keep spewing the same flawed shit, as if it makes more sense the second, third or fourth time around.
Your ideas are all crap and we said so — politely at first, but if you want come here insisting that your main points “sailed past” me, then I’m afraid I have to be a little more blunt in telling you that I understood everything you wrote, and that it was simply crap. I’ve explained in the post above exactly why, but you simply refuse to acknowledge the truth — no one needs ‘game’ to get any hooker in Bangkok. All you need is cash in your wallet.
You made some vague mention of girls’ happiness at going with me as a customer. Not sure where that came from… again, their happiness implies somehow that this is a meaningful relationship. They’re hookers! They don’t have to be happy to go with me, and I don’t expect or demand it. I’m paying them to have sex with me. It’s a job. It’s MY happiness that’s at issue here, not hers.
Her only issue is price.
I’ve been going into Rainbow Bars for years. Never been rejected by any girl — tall, short, fair skinned or dark, big or small breasted. Most of the girls I’ve taken from their have been fun and had great attitudes.
I have a problem, not just with you, but with everyone who talks about ‘hot’ girls and ‘ugly’ girls. I’ve had nights where I’ve been out with four other guys and we all have completely different ideas about who the stunners are.
It’s honestly hard to find a girl in a go go bar who ISN’T from Isaan. I’m sure you must know that. All I can imagine is that you don’t like a look that I think is fantastic, and somehow you think that everyone who does like it is an idiot.
Again, I dislikek having to say it so many times, but you’re wrong.
Again and again and again you’re wrong. Repeating yourself doesn’t make you right… it just makes you wrong again.
(re)joining the gym « RAWBangkok // Friday, 16 January 2009 at 3:55 pm |
[...] I was working. The girl on the phone was calling from California Wow at Sukhumvit 23. Unlike the last girl who called me hoping to get me to sign a new membership, this girl had good English skills and a confident attitude. She was ready to sign me up over the [...]